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Otaku Chat “*SPOILERS* Mass Effect 3 End Game Discussion” by Somebody

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Somebody 2 years ago on 03/13/12
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Which decision did you make, and was the game not awesome up until the last 5 minutes?

Im sincerely hoping for some alternate ending DLC.

If anyone else here read the Eragon series, I would say this game felt the same way as the ending of that. Incomplete, fairly rushed, and kinda vaguely sucky.
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Somebody 2 years ago on 03/13/12
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Wish I could edit that to bump it down a bit. Dont want people to assume the ending sucks until they get there...
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Chrispy 2 years ago on 03/13/12
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I can delete this thread and you can start over with other text to open.
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Dr. Moustache 2 years ago on 03/13/12
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Honestly, I enjoyed the ending. It was rough, and I was depressed all night about it, but that's a good sign, IMO.

Yeah, I had some problems with it that I'll probably go into in depth a little later, but overall I liked it.
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Frito 2 years ago on 03/13/12
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I was so pissed off I didn't get to make blue babies with Liara. >:(

I chose the merge option, but at least Joker got his girl.
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Dr. Moustache 2 years ago on 03/13/12
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I chose destroy. That's what I came there to do, SO I DID IT.

So basically everyone was sad.
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Somebody 2 years ago on 03/13/12
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By destroying, shepard lives! According to the chest heave I saw at the end.
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Frito 2 years ago on 03/14/12
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Destroying means losing all tech like EDI and the geth right? Maaan I should do another runthrough with keeping the quarians and then destroy.

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Somebody 2 years ago on 03/14/12
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Crap thats a good point, I also killed the Quarians. It kind of made sense that I felt the quarians should deal with their own mess I.E. the geth peacefully. I wish I could have prevented the war altogether.
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President Baltar 2 years ago on 03/14/12
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I've seen all the ranting about people hating on the ending and such, but myself personally, I thought it was pretty good. I figured the ultimate quesiton in the final part of the game was "Are you willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to bring peace?" Did think that the sudden pop-up of future DLC was awkward and unwelcomed right after the credits rolled.

That is, until I saw a thread on the BioWare forums that puts the ending in a whole new perspective:

http://...bioware.com/...forum/1/topic/355/index/9727423/1 <---Read it when you have the time, but for those of you who tl;dr, here's the point of it:

The final part of the game is you fighting off indoctrination. Think about it, after all the time Shepard has spent around Reapers and stuff, there's no way he cannot be indoctrinated to some degree. That's why when you're in the Crucible, the "Paragon" choice is to control to Reapers, and the "Renegade" choice is to destroy the Reapers. The Synthesis option is just a neutral stance.

But in essence: Control Reapers = Reapers Win. Synthesis = Reapers win. Destroy Reapers = You overcoming indoctrination. <---This explains why Shepard is alive during the ending when you choose this option.

And should this thread of speculation turn out the be true, then BioWare is doing what Remedy did with Alan Wake. As in, the final chapters of the game will be finished in DLC.

Okay, I'm doing with nerd theories. Sorry, ever since seeing that thread suddenly my own connections just popped in and I had to write them SOMEwhere.
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Somebody 2 years ago on 03/14/12
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Great find man. I hope we didnt just ruin the REAL ending though :D
PS: My first choice of ending was to destory the reapers then I played the other two. I think Im glad I destroyed them.
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Andrew 2 years ago on 03/14/12
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If the ideas put forth in that thread are correct, that is a serious achievement on Bioware's part. It would do away with most, if not all, of my issues with the endings available now.
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Dr. Moustache 2 years ago on 03/15/12
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I saw someone talking about this on v a few days after the game released. It's a solid argument to be made, but I don't know if it's intentional or not. Whatever the case, they could probably act like it was intentional if they wanted.
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Frito 2 years ago on 03/15/12
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Okaaaay Did any of you trying using your save after you do the ending to go and attack cerberus again? I get the whole "CRITICAL MISSION FAILURE" Load, continue, etc.. screen right at character selection after EDI tells you she has to come along.
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President Baltar 2 years ago on 03/15/12
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Andrew said:
If the ideas put forth in that thread are correct, that is a serious achievement on Bioware's part. It would do away with most, if not all, of my issues with the endings available now.


Guess we'll find out whenever they talk about DLC (which I have a feeling they're giving a while until they know a good number of people have finished the game). After all, whenever you finish the game, it always starts you out before the mission where you attack the Cerberus base.
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Somebody 2 years ago on 03/15/12
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Sweetums said:
Okaaaay Did any of you trying using your save after you do the ending to go and attack cerberus again? I get the whole "CRITICAL MISSION FAILURE" Load, continue, etc.. screen right at character selection after EDI tells you she has to come along.
...


Instead of doing that you have to load your "Restat Mission Collector Base" Save game. The choice you made, destroying all synthetics means that EDI is dead Im assuming. But no I havent had that problem.
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P.Y.T. 2 years ago on 03/15/12
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I'm here to gripe that I can't believe the catalyst was a kid. I expected a little more Morgan Freeman/sage-ish, and not Dakota Fanning/precocious from someone who had the answer to what has been going on for all of time. We've been dealing with adults from all species throughout the past 2 games; I was thrown off because I really could care less about children, especially when they're used as tired symbols of innocence/hope.
PS: Don't get me wrong, children are precious and should be loved, etc, etc, etc... IRL. In game, it was was reoccurring theme that they are the future we're fighting for and that was just cheap because I didn't need a child to represent something I already wanted, which was to save humanity.
PS: Answering OP's question, I chose destroy everything & yea the WHOLE SERIES was soooo good until those last 5 minutes. It wasn't bad, it was just a big wtf.
PS:
Somebody said:
I felt the quarians should deal with their own mess I.E. the geth peacefully. I wish I could have prevented the war altogether.

THIS. I am really disappointed that in ME2, we all chose to tell the Quarians to go to war with the geth or not after leaving from Tali's trial and the decision from that means NOTHING in ME3.

I thought after we explored the data revealed by Legion that peace could be made, but god damn that fucking Admiral Gerrel asshole pushing forward with war.
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Somebody 2 years ago on 03/15/12
Updated: 2 years ago on 03/15/12
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Number Four Bobby Orr said:
I've seen all the ranting about people hating on the ending and such, but myself personally, I thought it was pretty good. I figured the ultimate quesiton in the final part of the game was "Are you willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to bring pea...


Building off the theory postulated in the link you gave. I Just started my second playthrough today. They mention explicitly that indoctrinated people have the weird blue eyes that TIM has throughout the game. I think some evidence of that can be found by the PTSD Asari on the citadel in Huerta hospital, during your first eavesdrop of her conversation with her therapist: Her last question is: "What color are my eyes right now?" Which is significant because during later visits to Huerta hospital she says that her team was indoctrinated, and she was the only one not indoctrinated.

Biologically the codex doesnt mention Asari changing iris color frequently. But I think it could be a hint that indoctrination changes the color of your iris. Meaning she thinks that perhaps she has been indoctrinated and is trying to wake up out of some type of dream state. Just more to support that any decision other than destroying the reapers means you become fully indoctrinated.
PS:
Number Four Bobby Orr said:
I've seen all the ranting about people hating on the ending and such, but myself personally, I thought it was pretty good. I figured the ultimate quesiton in the final part of the game was "Are you willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to bring pea...


Building off the theory postulated in the link you gave. I Just started my second playthrough today. They mention explicitly that indoctrinated people have the weird blue eyes that TIM has throughout the game. I think some evidence of that can be found by the PTSD Asari on the citadel in Huerta hospital, during your first eavesdrop of her conversation with her therapist: Her last question is: "What color are my eyes right now?" Which is significant because during later visits to Huerta hospital she says that her team was indoctrinated, and she was the only one not indoctrinated.

Biologically the codex doesnt mention Asari changing iris color frequently. But I think it could be a hint that indoctrination changes the color of your iris. Meaning she thinks that perhaps she has been indoctrinated and is trying to wake up out of some type of dream state. Just more to support that any decision other than destroying the reapers means you become fully indoctrinated.
PS: Whoops... damn you F5
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Tulip O'Hare 2 years ago on 03/16/12
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Number Four Bobby Orr said:
I've seen all the ranting about people hating on the ending and such, but myself personally, I thought it was pretty good.

I agree with this. It was definitely too SHORT and I definitely feel mega gypped by THAT, but I also think that both the Control and Destroy options were decent and that the Synthesis choice was AMAZING.

But I am pretty convinced that EA saw what happened with the Fallout 3 ending and decided to deliberately engineer a repeat of it to wring more money out of this game. They have such little respect for their own customer base that I honestly find this easier to believe than any of the other theories.

Re: choices made in ME2 affecting ME3, I'm actually kinda glad that the obvious outcomes didn't happen in all cases. I particularly liked all the moral ambiguity around the genophage -- although in my personal fantasy game story, the salarians definitely go down in history as being the assholes who sat out saving the galaxy because they were too busy throwing a hissy fit about a science project.
Similarly, I was tempted to kill the quarians just to make a fucking example of them. Run yourself off your own homeworld and then risk the ENTIRE GALAXY'S ONLY HOPE to get it back? -- seriously, why bother saving you, the Geth are genuinely a better contribution to the galaxy.

P.Y.T. said:
I was thrown off because I really could care less about children, especially when they're used as tired symbols of innocence/hope.

It wasn't really a symbol of innocence/hope though, was it? It was so convinced it was doing the only right and logical thing by murdering the entire galaxy every 50,000 years. It was trite, but a bearded old man would've been trite too. ... not that I have any great ideas about what would've been better, admittedly.
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Tulip O'Hare 2 years ago on 03/17/12
Updated: 2 years ago on 03/17/12
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Interesting article.
http://penny-arcade.com/...g-and-worthy-of-the-series-mass

Very very very basic summary - Ben Kuchera argues with the complaints everyone has about the ending. Complaint : Response:
Ending is a giant deus ex machina : You were fine with it in the beginning when it was clear the whole game was going to be The Quest For The Magic Thing That Came Out Of Nowhere, why are you mad now at the end?
Who the hell was that kid, the kid was stupid : The Reaper(s?) picked a form that would be meaningful to Shepard, plus it's subversive and weird
The things the Crucible-Catalyst does are all way too magical : Why wouldn't they be, the game already has tons of magical tech
All those choices never meant anything : All those choices DID have an effect on the intermediate levels of the game, there's no reason to rehash all of them at the end
The ending is sad (or) It's a bad ending : Why does it always HAVE to be a good ending where you win everything and get everything you want? That's the difference between a gratification exercise and a story


Gotta say I don't totally agree with all of it. The Crucible and Catalyst do pretty much come out of nowhere in the beginning. There's no arguing with that. And Kuchera tries to say that gamers never whined about any of the other "magic" in the series... but all the other "magic" in the series had a LOT more setup. Even if you never look at the Codex once, Kaidan talks to you about biotics for fucking hours in ME1. The Geth are a scary mysterious race that you don't know a hell of a lot about for half the series -- it's only natural that they have some scary powerful weapons and tech that no one really understands.
But, he does have a bit of a point. For example, the Mass Relays and the Citadel, on which galactic civilization ENTIRELY DEPENDS, are Prothean and Reaper tech that NO ONE fully understands.

(Aside: When I first saw the drawings of the Crucible, I totally thought of the diagrams of the machine from the movie version of Contact, to the point where I wondered if there was going to be a more intentional reference.)

But I'm not at all upset that it wasn't a "happy" ending and that your individual choices throughout the games mattered less to the ending. Frankly, it would have been weak as fuck if Shepard destroyed the Reapers without any consequences for anything else lived to tell about it and everyone lived happily ever after. This series has never been about simple solutions and easy choices, that's what makes it so goddamn good! And really, with a problem like "all life in the galaxy is going to be destroyed," how much does it matter who you fucked or which races you saved?

... but, I mean, yeah, OK, I would've liked to see a forlorn shot of my widowed lover, or a hospital ward full of healthy babies on Tuchanka, or a geth scientist high-fiving a rachni engineer. And I still wish there'd been an ending that simply lasted longer given the amount of fucking time I poured into these games.
PS: Tangent: OKAY ONE MORE THING. Amusing thought. What if, instead of the kid, it'd been a Keeper? ... Or a chorus of Keepers? I mean, we still saw a Keeper scuttling around during the end sequence, they were there. And we never got 100% of the story about 'em.

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