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News & For Sale “"How Junk Food Can End Obesity"” by Kirei the Klown

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John Booty 6 years ago on 07/12/13
Equipped: Sparkledonkey's Gallbladder
Amanda said:
My point is not that people are too stupid & lazy to exercise more and eat less. My point is that even that is not the magic bullet for someone to recomp their body.

John Booty said:
Better diet and exercise really kind of are the magic bullets. The problem is that people have greatly varying levels of access to these magic bullets.

I looked at these posts again and realized I guess I don't know quite what you mean when you say, "magic bullet."

Maybe you mean they're "not the magic bullet" because access to them is so uneven.
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Amanda 6 years ago on 07/12/13
Equipped: Flux Capacitor named "THE FALLOPIAN TUBES OF TIME TRAVEL"
"eat better"

"exercise"

They are very demonstrably not specific or helpful pieces of advice. But hey, for the sake of the argument, maybe you and Steph should enlighten me on what you believe constitutes "better diet" and "exercise." Then we'd both be better equipped to discuss it I think.
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fukkake 6 years ago on 07/12/13
Equipped: Cockblast of Vengence named "Crotchfire!"
I don't like the way you are trying to argue but I will enlighten you on what I think I guess. I am sorry I didn't know we were to get into absolute specifics here because I guess I just assumed that as we are all healthy and smart individuals eating better/healthier would kind of be a no brainer to you and me without me having to break it down. Eating low-fat foods, whole grains, dairy, fruits and veggies with every meal and cutting back on your sugar intake (which means less sodas/juices and more water).

If you would like me to get even more specific everyone should be eating 5 servings of fruits and veggies every day. 2 servings of dairy every day. 1-2 servings of whole grains a day. 2 servings of meat or some protein every day. Meat being 3 ounces each serving. Dairy 2 servings that can be an 8 ounce glass of milk, 2 slices of cheese or yogurt.

Exercise, whatever gets you moving. I don't care if you walk, run, jog, play with your kids at the park/backyard, zumba, yoga, playing a sport, taking the stairs instead of the elevator, whatever... you should try to be doing something for 30 minutes every day.
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John Booty 6 years ago on 07/12/13
Equipped: Sparkledonkey's Gallbladder
Amanda said:
"eat better"

"exercise"

They are very demonstrably not specific or helpful pieces of advice. But hey, for the sake of the argument, maybe you and Steph should enlighten me on what you believe constitutes "better diet" and "exercise." The...


Hey, can you define the word demonstrably and those weird squiggly marks you put around eat better and exercise okay thanks








You're being really disingenuous, to put it charitably, and I'm not sure why you're frustrated by the lack of actionable advice in a thread that's not even remotely about advice?

If your point is that there are a lot of different possible definitions for "eat better" and "exercise" then... yeah? Okay? Nobody's saying otherwise?
PS: Also, if your as-yet-unarticulated-point is that simply yelling "eat better" and "exercise" at people is unhelpful and likely even harmful then yeah I think everybody on this thread agrees and has not said anything to the contrary so welcome to the club?
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Amanda 6 years ago on 07/12/13
Equipped: Flux Capacitor named "THE FALLOPIAN TUBES OF TIME TRAVEL"
Somebody said:
Eating low-fat foods, whole grains, dairy, fruits and veggies with every meal and cutting back on your sugar intake (which means less sodas/juices and more water).


Hey guess what, this is not universal advice!

Somebody said:
you should try to be doing something for 30 minutes every day.


Neither is this!

oh hey I wondered how long it would take for your patented condescension to come out and play! Neat! This will most definitely foster interesting discussion!

You should probably team up and ridicule me some more because that will definitely make me more willing and able to discuss your points intelligently instead of just being pissed off.

I am not being disingenuous, I have never argued on OB from a point of being disingenuous but it's fine, I see where you're coming from. I didn't want to make assumptions about your assumptions on health & exercise but it's fine, I see now that I should have.

Moderator Amanda Says:

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fukkake 6 years ago on 07/12/13
Equipped: Cockblast of Vengence named "Crotchfire!"
....Really?
 
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Ak 6 years ago on 07/16/13
I saw this article today and agree with it, what do you guys think: http://...schwarzenegger.com/...ning-foods-they-dont-exist

the tldr is:

Q: So what causes fat gain?
A: Consuming more calories than you expend on a consistent basis.

"In other words, if you eat more than you burn you’ll store extra calories as body fat (i.e. gain weight). Conversely, if you burn more than you eat you’ll use excess body fat as energy (i.e. lose weight).

It’s as simple as that.

Granted, there are other involved factors and a variety of ways to manipulate fat loss but, generally speaking, the above will always hold true."
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Moonage Daydream 6 years ago on 07/16/13
Equipped: Link's Boomerang named "I wish I knew how to quit you"
Ak said:
I just posted a link from http://www.schwarzenegger.com, what do you guys think
PS:
Ak said:
a link from http://www.schwarzenegger.com
PS:
Ak said:
http://www.schwarzenegger.com


PS: There is evidence that, for many people, the key may be "don't get fat in the first place," and if you do, you're kinda screwed

http://...nytimes.com/...oss-efforts-study-finds.html?_r=0

Small study, but indicative of further research into the idea that just getting, or being, overweight may permanently change your body in a way that makes it much more difficult to keep weight off. :(

The article said:
In the study, Joseph Proietto and his colleagues at the University of Melbourne recruited people who weighed an average of 209 pounds. At the start of the study, his team measured the participants’ hormone levels and assessed their hunger and appetites after they ate a boiled egg, toast, margarine, orange juice and crackers for breakfast. The dieters then spent 10 weeks on a very low calorie regimen of 500 to 550 calories a day intended to makes them lose 10 percent of their body weight. In fact, their weight loss averaged 14 percent, or 29 pounds. As expected, their hormone levels changed in a way that increased their appetites, and indeed they were hungrier than when they started the study.

They were then given diets intended to maintain their weight loss. A year after the subjects had lost the weight, the researchers repeated their measurements. The subjects were gaining the weight back despite the maintenance diet — on average, gaining back half of what they had lost.

The results show, Dr. Leibel said, that losing weight “is not a neutral event,” and that it is no accident that more than 90 percent of people who lose a lot of weight gain it back. “You are putting your body into a circumstance it will resist,” he said. “You are, in a sense, more metabolically normal when you are at a higher body weight.”


I'M NOT FAT, I'M METABOLICALLY NORMAL
PS: I think one positive step in terms of OB's expanding waist line would be to change "Fatty Talk" into "Fitty Talk." That would also give us a dedicated "candy shop" to discuss everyone's favorite washboard-ab rapper-turned-whatever-he-is-now
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Lord Not-To-Fucked-With 6 years ago on 07/17/13
Equipped: Tear-stained Emo Poetry by Skewdles
that article is scary. i cant help but be super skeptical that the dieters weren't cheating on their maintenance plan. it seems like a pretty simple formula - give them foods that wont produce any/much fat and let their bodies tap into their own reserves to get energy. it sounds like they were either cheating, or that they live a ridiculously sedentary life, or the diet was flawed.

this is all very unscientific speculation on my part. and i only pretend to understand the very basics of weight loss.
but recently i have experienced something interesting that i think could shed some, at most, dubious light on the experience of dieting.

i've been trying to lose my gut via dieting - i've been literally too busy to keep any kind of exercise plan atm. its not a big gut, but its grown over the past years and i don't like it so i figured i focus on it. my only plan has been: "become carb conscious." no more carbs at dinner time. if i get a craving for dessert, i can have a casein shake - ironically my cravings for dessert disappear when i think about drinking a gross protein shake so i haven't even tried the stuff yet.

anyway, over the past days, i feel like i can actually feel my body tapping into fat reserves due to lack of incoming carbs. this is basically superstition i'll admit, but my hopefully shrinking gut is telling me that i am experiencing a physiological change - and the best part is: it feels gross. i remember a point when i wasn't having many carbs in the past just by way of life at the time, and i experienced the same feeling, but i took it as a kind of malnourished feeling so i started feeding myself carbs on the regular.

daydream's nytimes article here could definitely be co-opted to back me up a little. if a more beneficial diet is causing uncomfortable hormone changes in me, and causing me to have some crackers like i did last night, then i can definitely see how people can lose control so easily when trying to lose weight. maybe their body's chemical responses are much more extreme. imagine being drugged or put under sedation; how immediately you lose command of your body which usually feels like your own inviolable territory. i have no concluding sentence.
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Moonage Daydream 6 years ago on 07/17/13
Equipped: Link's Boomerang named "I wish I knew how to quit you"
Q said:
that article is scary. i cant help but be super skeptical that the dieters weren't cheating on their maintenance plan.


I understand the skepticism, but I would hope that a properly conducted scientific study would have some way of not being subverted by hidden stashes of Baby Ruths. Either way, that's why more research is needed. But the idea that your body can be permanently, physically, hormonally changed is not that far-fetched.
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Kirei the Klown 6 years ago on 07/18/13
Equipped: Ein Plushie named "Poopenheimer"
Moonage Daydream said:
Small study, but indicative of further research into the idea that just getting, or being, overweight may permanently change your body in a way that makes it much more difficult to keep weight off. :(


That's pretty interesting. A downer, but it is interesting. Reminds me of the studies showing the risks of childhood obesity carrying into adulthood.

After all, there's a reason for that "results not typical" disclaimer on all those fitness and diet program endorsements where someone has dropped 50-100 pounds. A good bit of it is in diet and exercise, but some of it has to be luck of the biological draw or a lot more people would be able to achieve those results with the same efforts.
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fukkake 6 years ago on 07/22/13
Equipped: Cockblast of Vengence named "Crotchfire!"
To my understanding, very depressing understanding, once you gain weight those fat cells are always there to haunt you for the rest of your life. They shrink down but they never go away. If you don't take care of yourself they plump right back up as do you.

So yeah. A super healthy diet and moderate exercise anfor life. UGH.
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Lord Not-To-Fucked-With 6 years ago on 07/23/13
Equipped: Tear-stained Emo Poetry by Skewdles
waaaat! fat cells fo lyfe?? gotta be a way to like vent them or discharge them or something
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Cognac Jack 6 years ago on 08/16/13
Equipped: Magical Chicken Hat #2 named "I wub chickinz"
fukkake said:
So yeah. A super healthy diet and moderate exercise anfor life. UGH.


As a person who lost 100 pounds in 2 years and gained back 80 in another 2 years this is basically the truth.

There's basically no "I've reached my target weight, I can slack off."

I did that and it totally backfired and now I'm back to square one. Considering I don't want to do all the things I did to lose 100 pounds ( fat burners and tons of supplements, I also missed my junk food) I've decided and I think the best route to go is to maintain diet and exercise level that will keep you within 10 to 20lbs of your ideal weight. That way when I'm ready to lose I can just turn it up and I don't have to be super strict for long periods of time which is hard for the average person to do anyways.

But as said before there's not magic bullet or system to get there at some point if you want permanent weight loss you have to decide to forever change your habits of food and activity.
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the.avidpedestrian 6 years ago on 08/16/13
Equipped: Kato Mask named "can you see me now?"
This is true... I was watching some documentary on weight, and this doctor that was on there, a surgeon who did weight loss surgeries and things basically said that once you're fat, you're always fat. Kind of like being a "recovering addict/alcoholic." Just like you're never NOT an alcoholic even if you don't drink anymore, you're never not fat, even if you've lost the weight. And when I say "fat," I don't mean that cosmetic "could lose a few," I mean clinically overweight or obese.

The example he gave was like, okay, you have two people who are identical in every way except one had, for whatever reason gained enough weight to be "overweight/obese." Well, everyone knows how to lose weight--net negative calories in a day through diet and exercise. Well, the now-formerly-obese person is STILL never going to be in a metabolic place where they can go back to the "regular" calories. So for your height/weight/age you should be around 2000 calories/day to maintain, according to the charts or whatever. The person who was NEVER fat can do that, or even maybe go over a little for vacation or to celebrate or weekend cheat day or whatever every once in a while, and it won't really affect them unless cheat day turns into every day. The now-formerly-obese person is NEVER going to be back at 2000 calories/day. And if you go over your maintenance caloric goal, even once or twice, you are more likely to see IMMEDIATE weight gain. This is forever. Which kind of seems to be in line with where this study that Moonage Daydream mentioned. It might even be the same study, actually. Either way, it sucks, when you think about it, but it also makes sense. I mean, most alcoholics never get to a place where they're so "recovered" that they can have just A drink, either; they have to stay on that wagon forever, too.

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